This week, The CW returned to the world of live-action superhero television shows with Arrow, a series about Oliver Queen, aka DC Comics‘ Green Arrow. Developed by Andrew Kreisberg, Marc Guggenheim and Brandon & James’ idol Greg Berlanti, Arrow stars Stephen Amell as the titular Arrow. This superhero saga begins with the story of Oliver Queen, celebutant turned traumatized killing machine, thanks to a boating accident that left him stranded for years on a deserted island. Rescued and back in Starling City (wait, what?) he vows vengeance on those who screwed up the city, unaware that his greatest enemy may be closer than he thought.

When Friend of the Site Andrea Speed approached us about doing a group review of the pilot, we jumped at the chance. At least one of us immediately regretted it and the fiercest disagreement Brandon and James have ever had ensued. So join us as the episode starts with a castaway on a mysterious island with a sweet beard, a cool sleeveless hoodie and a wicked six pack.

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Andrea: Green Abs-row, am i right? I hate myself and I want to die right now. Also, at the beginning, he was Grizzly Arrow.

Brandon: Green Hobo? I would absolutely love to watch that.

Abs-rea: Hell, I’d watch Grizzly Arrow. He just lives in the wilderness, and … shoots stuff. Yeah, that ran out of gas real fast.

James: The nuts thing is that was actually, for me, the most compelling part of the entire episode, and it was over in like a minute. Then things got dark and gritty.

Abs-rea: If Chris Nolan didn’t make The Dark Knight, this show would not exist.

Brandon: I was watching this with Danica, and we were both pretty sure we were watching Batman. Although, I don’t think that means it’s bad.

Abs-rea: Also, very briefly, when Abs-row goes after the baddie in the office tower, I had flashes of Hit Girl taking everybody in Kick Ass. But that may have been unintentional.

James: I don’t think it’s something that was basically Batman - though those similarities to Batman Begins were definitely there - as much as it was the basic distillation of the New 52’s entire ethos in one unappealing package.

Brandon: And oddly enough, I was okay with the show? I kept having flashes of Smallville in my mind as a direction this could have gone, and so I maybe… felt a bit better about what this was.

Abs-rea: I didn’t think it was great, but I didn’t think it was terrible either. I’ll watch next episode, sure. And I’m glad this isn’t Smallville, because that show was a sleeping pill. Oh, and speaking of unappealing - Tommy? From unappealing to revolting in three seconds flat. I was hoping every women in the show would get in his face and say, “I’m not gay, but I’ll learn.” Somebody tell me he dies horribly, and soon.

James: I couldn’t stand the show, and Tommy was just one very good indication of why: every single character was a smug asshole. They all sit there sniping at each other and, for a show about a superhero, there is literally nothing superheroic about the character. He’s a dick to his friends and his family. He murders constantly. That’s something the hero of the show does.

Brandon: Yeah, the murder thing threw me off quite a bit. And not that it changes anything (it doesn’t really) but the dude’s name in the show, Tommy Merlyn. In the comics, Merlyn is one of Green Arrow’s worst enemies. I’m thinking this guy is a douche on purpose.

Abs-rea: Oh, thank Jeebus. I hope Abs-row kills him soon. See, I think they’re going the vigilante route, which I’m okay with. (Wolverine fan and all.) But I never really thought of Green Arrow as a vigilante. Also, this is probably the show’s attempt to cash in on some of that Breaking Bad/Mad Man antihero stuff. Without understanding what an anti-hero actually is.

James: That would be fine, except they’ve packaged it as a superhero story about a character who’s a known quantity. For Smallville’s flaws, it got the core of the character right; it was inherently optimistic and Clark could be whiny, but he was a hero. Here, Oliver is a guy who kills people for undisclosed reasons, and is a dick to everyone around him.

Abs-rea: Ah, but I think they were hinting at trauma they could blame it on - PTSD. He was sleeping on the floor in the rain, remember? He hurts. He has feels, dude.

Brandon: I definitely had my troubles with the tone in parts, like say, when Ollie’s dad straight up shoots himself in the head. And that other dude.

Abs-rea: See, more trauma. It may have helped the show a tone if they got an actor who could, you know … act.

Brandon: Which reminds me: Willa Holland is on this show as Ollie’s sister? And she was mini Cooper on The OC back in the day. That amused me. Also: that thought has almost nothing to do with what we’re talking about… other than the fact that she did manage to get better at acting, as she didn’t look confused all the time.

James: The dad-shooting-himself-and-their-friend thing is indicative of a big problem with the episode for me. It should have been a big, emotional thing, but there was zero reason to care. We don’t know that version of Ollie. We don’t know his dad. We don’t even get the other guy’s name. It’s shock violence for nothing other than the hell of it, and it doesn’t contribute anything to making sense of the plot. By the end of a pilot episode, viewers should be able to understand the hero’s main motivation as it goes into the next week. I honestly don’t know why Oliver Queen is doing anything on this show, and that’s something that runs through the whole episode.

Abs-rea: I have to ask now, what does everyone think is the best superhero show made to date? I’m going to go with Misfits (UK).

Brandon: Batman 66.

James: Yes. And that was a show that was incredibly efficient in how it conveyed its overall tone and mission.

Abs-rea: You mean Batutsi Batman? (By the way, if we count cartoons, I’ll change my answer to The Venture Brothers.)

Brandon: The Venture Brothers are rad. Is rad? I guess that depends on if I’m referring to the show, or the brothers. I hate grammar. I commit grammar crimes on a regular basis.

Abs-rea: May I point out Brock Samson has killed a shitlod of dudes. Just sayin’.

James: It’s also not a superhero show in the slightest bit. And it’s whole point is that they’re generally awful people on that show. Arrow is trying to tell us that Ollie is a good guy, with exactly zero evidence to it. There’s a massive disconnect between what they say and what is actually shown, and there’s no better symbol of it than the part where the doctor describes him as having “20% of his body covered in scar tissue” and then in the very next show you can see that he’s actually in remarkably good shape/health with almost no scars.

Abs-rea: Oh, being stranded on a desert island is clearly better than PX-90. Nobody’s disputing that. (Besides logic.)

Brandon: James, for all the similar opinions we have, I’m actually surprised that I didn’t actually hate this show. Not exactly sure why that is, because it has a lot of the things I don’t like about… well, about some superhero comics in it.

James: A challenge: name me a single good or likable character. Even Laurel Lance ends the episode by encouraging her clients to commit tax fraud.

Abs-rea: But that would require actual characters, dude. These are types, placeholders until the pilot table is set.

Brandon: Oh, none of the characters are good, I don’t think. There’s a general lack of motivation for everyone at this point in time - and that’s the flaw right at the heart of it. We’re not shown why Ollie is this way, or what has spurred him on the crusade. We’re shown something, but we’re missing very, very crucial pieces to the puzzle, and it makes the picture all…

Okay, I was going for some kind of metaphor there, but it’s not happening. There was a puzzle and a cat ate a piece or something. Still. I ended up enjoying the show more than I hated it. Maybe it was because I spent the whole time writing ridiculous notes for the whole hour.

Abs-rea: That’s why they name-checked Lost a couple of times. A not so subtle hint that we’ll fill you in, audience, when we get around to it.

James: Lost at least let you know its core ethos by the end of the pilot episode - “People lost on mysterious island.” You at least got some background, and got a sense of who the characters were and why you didn’t want them just to die. I actually think that Arrow could have benefited a lot from focusing a lot more initially on the island Ollie was stranded on. Have anywhere from 1-2 hours of him just getting by, dealing with what his father told him, and then have him get back to town on a mission. Instead, we’re told he has a mission but nothing else.

Abs-rea: Oh, speaking of which, they need to drop the voice overs fast. Hate it, and it’s clumsy and lazy.

Brandon: There might have been a few prohibiting factors with having it be an island thing for a while. The show probably could have benefited from some more time on the island, maybe push the opening hour to two, but I think longer than that would have been a mistake.

Abs-rea: Oh hell yeah, the CW has no budget. Did anyone catch the CGI in the boat scene that made it look like a made for Syfy film? And I agree, brandon - TV, like film, is a visual medium, and introspection doesn’t get the butts in the seats. Oh, and James - I protest that Venture Brothers slam. What has the Alchemist or Jefferson Twilight ever done to you?

James: They wouldn’t have needed much budget to shoot in some goddamn woods. Like, that shit is *literally* free.

Brandon: I’m wondering if part of my enjoyment doesn’t come from the part where my brain is filling in the blanks for myself. What clued me into that were the names “Grell” and “Diggle” in the show - references to two writers who have worked on the property before. They’re borrowing the look of Green Arrow in this from Mike Grell, quite heavily, and the island origin stuff from Andy Diggle - who wrote an awesome Year One with Jock as an artist. So I basically filled in the plots from those stories (which meshed with what the show was presenting) and went along from there.

Abs-rea: Diggle and Jock generally make awesome stuff. (Re: The Losers.)

James: If the key to being able to make sense of the plot of a pilot episode is having read not one but two comic series by people obtusely referenced in the episode, then it’s objectively bad TV. In that is is poorly constructed on a very fundamental level.

Abs-rea: You realize this looks like Breaking Bad compared to Beauty and the Beast, right?

Brandon: I wasn’t trying to excuse the story-telling. Without that information, I know the plot doesn’t hold all that well. But at the end of the day, I didn’t quite end up hating it, and I have hopes for them to maybe tighten the show up in the future.

Abs-rea: And I know nothing about Green Arrow, except he’s an arrow guy. (More of a Marvel girl, sorry.) But I expected nothing from the pilot, and it wasn’t as horrible as I feared it would be, so on the basis of low expectations, it gets a passing grade. But it’s quite clumsy, and they need to sort that writing room out fast.

James: I would literally have to be paid to watch another episode. I don’t know that much about Green Arrow; I’ve read his Wiki article and a few comics, but one of his core character concepts is that he’s driven by a strong need to improve things, to fight for very deeply-held convictions. And on that level, this show completely fails - it recasts Oliver as someone who murders for vengeance, which is not the kind of thing a superhero does. That’s what the Punisher does, and I am actively rooting for that guy to lose in every single one of his comics. One thing that I found incredibly disappointing is that Greg Berlanti’s shows are generally optimistic on a very fundamental level - Everwood was about the hope that a father can rebuild his family and Jack & Bobby was about a loving relationship between brothers and growing up - but Arrow is fundamentally pessimistic. Stuff is fucked up. It’s thematically and visually black. Not even dark, but black. The hero is a vengeance killer and his supporting cast - with the possible exception of his bodyguard and his maid (and it’s weird how all the staff in this are the minority characters) - are unlikable. It’s bleak, and that’s not something I think a superhero story should be pushing forward, especially not one about a character who is defined by his desire to make things better.

Abs-rea: Okay, I took all the staff being minorities as sadly realistic - the ultra-rich do that, or at least they do in the States. Second, both shows you cite were cancelled for low ratings - no wonder he’s pessimistic! Also, America’s kind of shit right now. You may not know that.

James: First, Everwood was NOT cancelled for low ratings. It was actually one of the WB’s ratings leaders, but when it and UPN merged, they had to cancel some shows and in the end, the network went with One Tree Hill instead. Second, I understand that America is kind of shit right now. But superhero stories are meant to be aspirational, and there is literally nothing aspirational about this episode except for some sick abs.

Brandon: The abs were indeed, quite sick.

Abs-rea: The X-Men aren’t aspirational.

James: Yes, the X-Men are. It’s about the civil rights movement and the idea that, some day, different peoples can co-exist. Xavier’s dream is fundamentally optimistic, and the entire team exists because he was trying to make a better world.

Abs-rea: Until Chuck Austen comes and fucks it all up. (I can’t stop kicking this corpse! It’s too fun!)

Brandon: I will say this: I’m actually going to continue with the show. It’s not quite my cup of tea, but I have roughly two pages worth of scribbles and jokes. I enjoyed doing that. I didn’t find the show to be terrible - flawed, yes. I think their aim is a little off (that was pun-intentional) but I’m hoping that once the series gets a bit further in, it will correct itself. In the end, I think Ollie wants to do good, but he doesn’t yet have a center or focus.

Abs-rea: I think TV people, like movie people, assume if a character is kind of dark, he’s deep. (It’s always a he. They’d never make a woman this way .. except Nikita, but that’s a different story.) It’s hack and lazy, but that’s how it goes. And this wasn’t the worst job I’ve seen of it. Remember Heroes? Remember how everyone ended up liking Sylar, because the heroes were bland? It’s like that.

James: Brandon, I find exactly no evidence that Ollie wants to do good. When the series starts, he’s already had his hero’s journey. He’s made himself into something more than just a man, and the first thing he does is compile a list of people who need to be robbed and murdered. I can guarantee they’re going to try to build him into someone who wants to do good, but right now he’s just a murderer, and that’s about as broken, to pick up the Batman analogue from earlier since they were going for it, as the show could possibly get. Batman Begins didn’t have Bruce come back to town and start murdering motherfuckers, but Arrow did. Anything else it tries to do from this point on, it’s still working with the fundamental thesis that the hero is a guy who murders as his first option. It’s like Batman Begins if Bruce never stopped being the guy Rachel slapped.

Abs-rea: Shit, James - the way you’re describing him, I’m thinking of Arrow now as the white Omar, from The Wire. Omar robbed drug dealers, and occasionally put down a punk. But he was a lot richer in character, you know. I don’t see Abs Boy as Omar. No sir.

Brandon: I’m building much of my opinion on what I think the show is going to do, and I’ll admit, I could be totally off base with everything. The pilot doesn’t offer much in the way of proving itself worthy of change - but I’m still intrigued to see where it goes. I think in the end, no matter which direction it takes, there’ll be a good article to write - either something redemptive, despite its flawed beginning, or… well, a plea to be better than this.

Abs-rea: Now I want someone to write a slash-fic about Omar and Abs boy. That’d be hysterical.

James: Brandon, it’s that kind of thinking that led to two Tim Burton Batman movies and a Superman movie where he basically date rapes Lois Lane (Superman II, for those playing along at home).

Abs-rea: Hey! Michelle Pfeiffer was a hot Catwoman! So one good thing came out of those Batman films.

Brandon: True enough - but I’ve experienced enough good product from the showrunners that I’m hopeful. I think that’s my general state - I kinda always end up hoping for the best, even with evidence to the contrary. It doesn’t always end well for me, but still. I also think there could be a good story in starting from this place, and having Ollie learn that it’s not really cool to just straight up murder folks. That seems like a very Berlanti storyline, letting the characters fuck up big and learning some shit the hard way - although this is just… way far beyond the stuff that would happen on Everwood.

Abs-rea: I’d be fine with that as long as there’s no boxing glove arrows.

James: Here’s how the show moves forward along those lines, for me: Ollie learns his lesson, turns himself in, spends life in jail and the show continues with an entirely different cast and premise.

Abs-rea: Or it becomes a superhero Oz, and moves to HBO.

Brandon: Turns out, I would watch all three of those shows.

Abs-rea: I don’t know. Oz was super-rapey, guys. DC won’t allow it … I mean, to happen to a dude.

Brandon: I was gonna say, DC gets pretty rapey.

Abs-rea: Oh yes, I read that Brad Meltzer one (Identity Crisis) … oy gevalt.

Brandon: James once called me “the Brad Meltzer of rape” and it’s probably one of the worst things he’s ever said to me. Which is saying something.

James: Let’s not forget that Arrow has already gotten kinda rapey. Tommy, the best friend, is approached by the cop (who’s the father of Laurel) at Ollie’s party and asks who he’s roofied tonight. And Tommy just smiles. Like, that was a punchline on a show for teen girls in 2012. A roofie joke. For me, the show is a lot like the parts of the New 52 I don’t really like - an emphasis on being “cool” and “gritty” but without a sense of plot, character or basic human decency.

Abs- rea: Wow. You’ve just revealed yourself as Canadian. Human decency? What the hell’s that? Some furin’ crap, I bet. Seriously, though, we have little of that here. Don’t be flauntin’ it.

James: Well, since apparently I’m not going to convince either of you that you’re deeply, incontrovertibly wrong, and also since it’s 2am, I’m going to suggest we tap out here.

Abs-rea: By the way, isn’t Brad Meltzer the Brad Meltzer of rape?

James: It’s a hereditary title passed down to only the most awful people. Though I guess Brad Meltzer himself actually seems like a really nice, principled guy.

Abs-rea: So it’s the Chuck Austen of Brad Meltzer? I’m deeply confused. Is one an honorary title, or do you catch it like the clap? Is there medicine for it?

Brandon: No, but if you build a conspiracy complex enough to trap a Meltzer, you might be able to find a cure. Did that make sense? I’m not used to this hour anymore.

Abs-rea: You’re a buncha pantywaists! In my day, I’d go three, four years without sleep, and you don’t see me banana pants granola doohickey! Why’s it smell so purple in here?

James: And with that, let’s have our one-sentence closing statements on the pilot episode of Arrow. Brandon, you first, since you’re the wrongest.

Brandon: Arrow misses its mark, but shows room for… something. It’s undecided whether that something is improvement or the other thing. Words… are hard.

Andy?

Abs-rea: It’s utterly ridiculous, but generally watchable, if emotionally bereft. At least being stranded on a deserted isle gives you made parkour skills.

James: Arrow: Poorly written, poorly acted, poorly shot and morally repugnant, but hey - at least there’s literally only room for improvement.

And with that - and a reminder that since I’m the only one who kept it to one sentence, I’m clearly the one who’s rightest - we bid you readers farewell until the next bad decision.

Brandon: That’s the Comics! The Blog way.